Rob Markman: What’s up, Geniuses? Welcome back to For the Record and I’m your
host Rob Markman. Now if you follow us on this channel, you
know we show a lot of love to producers. Our Deconstructed Series is one of our favorites
to produce. I know it was one of your favorites to watch
because we read all the comments. We want to talk about now the business of
producing. We talked a lot about the art of producing,
but we want to talk about the business. There’s been a lot of talk about Spotify combating
the 44% raise increase for songwriters and producers. There’s been a lot of talk lately in the media
about producers not getting paid on time from major labels. We felt like it was important to come here
and talk about it and educate y’all on it. I brought some homies with me, man. Rob Markman: First up we got the Grammy Award
winning… Sounds nice, doesn’t it? My man, Ilmind Man, you worked with Drake, the Carters,
J Cole, Kendrick Lamar, Kanye, Skyzoo, because that’s some of my favorite Illmind productions
right there. Welcome to For The Record, man. Illmind: Thank you man. Thanks for having me. Rob Markman: Nah, man. Thank you for coming. Next up we have a friend of mine, one of my
favorite producers as well. Statik Selektah has produced for Eminem, Freddie
Gibbs, Joey Bada$$. Action Bronson, you’re on Shade 45 Show
Off Radio and you just dropped a new album with Bun B, TrillStatik. Statik Selektah: Yeah. Thanks for having me, man. Rob Markman: Statik, man. Welcome to For The Record, man. How you guys doing? How y’all feeling today? Illmind: Good. Statik Selektah: Feeling good. Illmind: Feeling good. Rob Markman: Did anybody make any hits today? Statik Selektah: Not today, but last night Illmind: Not today. Yeah. Last night for me. Rob Markman: Do you know when it’s a hit? When you kind of finish, do you know? Illmind: You never know. I mean, you know you have favorites, but you
never know what a smash record is. At least I don’t. You just go in there and make stuff. Rob Markman: Statik, what about you? Do you know? Do you get this feeling, man? Statik Selektah: I have beats from 2008 that
I was like, “This is going to be out of here. This is going to change my life,” and no one
used it still. Ones I was messing around with earlier this
week, ended up the next day on Bun’s album that I never would have thought would have
ended up on there. It’s like you never know, man. The ones you might take five minutes with
might be your biggest records. Rob Markman: Right man, it’s amazing because
both of you guys have done so much in music and you’re the producers that I think a lot
of the young producers look up to. I thought it was super important to have this
conversation just because one, I think for producers to learn the business before they
go in and then for the music fans outside of producers to just know how to support their
favorite music. You know what I’m saying? What does a click mean? How are we giving to this ecosystem of music
that we consume so much. I want to start off with a very kind of basic
question just so people understand. Illmind, I’ll start with you. Just how do you make your living? Where’s the biggest source of income coming
from? We see the production credits, but you do
a lot of things other than just produce. Illmind: Right. Well I think first off, I think a lot of people
don’t realize how long it took or how long it takes in general for producers to set themselves
up financially, in a real way. In the beginning it starts off with slangin’
beats. You sell beats here and there. You might lease beats and then you start building
up publishing and then you collect publishing and this is all stuff that they don’t teach
you in school. Illmind: You have to do research or teach
yourself, but I think for me this is 15 plus years in. I’ve been fortunate enough to set up multiple
revenue streams. I think for me it’s always been, I’m a music
producer first. A big revenue stream for me is selling beats. Getting that, that upfront fee for getting
a placement is really not even the main source of income anymore. It’s really the backend stuff, so publishing,
royalty points. Now with the whole streaming thing, which
obviously we’ll talk about in a minute, but that’s become a big source of income. Illmind: Then I have other stuff like producer
meetups. I’m doing these tours all around cities… Rob Markman: The workshops, you have merch. Illmind: Workshops, I have merch and then
the drum kits have been huge for me. I started that back in 2011 when people were
shitting on me for putting my drums out. It was very much frowned upon in the community
and now it’s become this huge sort of ecosystem for producers and a real source of income. That’s been sort of a big part of it too. It’s all these different revenue streams that
I’ve been able to take advantage of. They’re all based around like the production
communities. Rob Markman: Seeing yourself as a producer. Illmind: Yeah. Rob Markman: I ask not to pocket watch or
be in your pockets, but to give people are very real sense of what it is and what they
have to do and how they should be thinking about themselves. Statik. I know you also do a number of things other
than just produce. Statik Selektah: A lot. Rob Markman: How do you kind of generate income
for yourself and your team? Statik Selektah: I mean, first and foremost,
I’m a DJ. DJing is a big part of my life, will always
be. That’s something that if everything else falls
apart, I’m going to be rocking, no matter what. I own a record label, Show Off Records. We’ve put out all kinds of releases. I used to own a marketing company. I kind of passed it to my man, but Show Off
Marketing back in Boston. Placements, I do a lot of music for Jordan
brand, Rockstar Games, Major League Baseball, a lot of different companies that I’ve done
specific music for. Rob Markman: Those fall more on typically
under the umbrella of licensing deals, right? Statik Selektah: Yup. Then obviously publishing and I’m signed to
Reservoir. I had a dope deal over there. Then lastly, beat placements, which is funny
because you could get a major label placement nowadays and the advance like less than so
many other things you’re dealing with. It’s like the least of my thoughts. I don’t even… Sometimes I get a check in the mail from major
label and I’m like, “Oh I forgot I did that,” and I didn’t even care because there’s so
much… There’s so many other things bigger around
that, and it all goes hand in hand. If you think you’re gonna just sit there and
sell beats and make a living just selling beats for the rest of your life, you’re bugging. You got to get in a different… You got get the whole package together, whatever
that’s going to be. Rob Markman: Just so people understand that. That sort of up front payment, that upfront
advance, is it the same as an advance? It’s basically that upfront payment is like,
I’m giving you this beat for X amount of dollars and they’re paying you for your service, no
matter what happens. Here’s the beat. It’s for you. Statik Selektah: The publishing is where you
have a right because say you get 10 grand, five grand, whatever… First of all, me and him come from a similar
school where we’re like, we came in after the Just Blazes and The Alchemists and all
these guys. Some of these guys were getting 30-40,000
a beat. No one’s getting that anymore. In 2019 nobody’s getting that. You can be an A-list producer on the biggest
album, you’re not getting that. It’s a gift and a curse for us I think because
now we’re, like you said, a lot of the young kids looking up to us and we have our time
now, but it’s like we also missed out on that era where it’s like… Illmind: Yeah, we came in in that in between
era of CD sales declining- Statik Selektah: iTunes, yeah. Illmind: Then the industry is scrambling for
monetizing again and then streaming. I mean, just as early as what, 2014, 2015
streaming was still Statik Selektah: Early as 2000… I remember my first album came out in 2007
and it was also the year that Drama got hit and all that stuff was going on. I was like, “I have to like make a business
card for my production.” It was like iTunes was so new that no one… People are still buying CDs then. It was just the in-between period where I
was like, “I’m about to sell this many records,” and was like, “Reality check. It’s the worst possible time to come out with
your first album. I watched the whole game change through the
years. Rob Markman: That decline has to do with the
shift to digital and… Well CD sales were declining. Statik Selektah: Yeah, absolutely. Rob Markman: Right off the rip. Like everybody knows that Statik Selektah: That’s dead now. It’s less than 5% of the… Rob Markman: We’re talking about when you
came in. CD sales were declining and it was the shift
to digital. Statik Selektah: It was like Best Buy still
picked up my album and I was so happy to walk in the store and see it in Best Buy, but I
didn’t understand that these indie companies were paying $3,000 even to get into Best Buy. These programs were going on, but the sales
were declining. It’s like you’re almost paying for… The same way people pay now to be on whatever
playlist or whatever, but the difference was is nobody would… not the same amount of
people were buying the CDs. You’re paying to be like placed in a… Rob Markman: And you might not and you might
not recoup. You’re paying for the placement in the stores. A lot of… Statik Selektah: I always recoup. I never had nothing that was… I’m proud of that because I’ve been indie
for a long time and now I’m … Illmind: Then also a lot of producers don’t
know that whatever advance you receive from a label or whatever that’s… You have to recoup that, too. Rob Markman: Well that’s what I was talking
about. You don’t start collecting your publishing
royalties, which is the back end, until you’re recouped on your advance? Illmind: Right. Rob Markman: That money that they give you
upfront is essentially a loan. Illmind: Yeah, for the most part or the reason
why also too, it’s so low is because they’re basically paying you money that they know
they’re going to make back. That’s why the days of 50… like Statik said,
50 grand, 100 grand for a beat upfront is just, those days are over. Rob Markman: Because the record labels aren’t
making that back? Illmind: Well, I don’t about that. I don’t know about that. Statik Selektah: An important thing to realize
is that when you take an advance for anything, you’re getting less on the back end, period. In 2007, I needed the money, so I took a,
I think, $15,000 advance or something on my album and at the end of the day the label
got half the money. Now if I didn’t take that, then you can negotiate. I’ll get 15%, not 50%. As you get older and in a more secure position,
you can change that, but early on… That’s another thing too, man. Have fun with this. Not everybody’s going to always not get robbed. It’s good to get robbed a couple of times. I mean, but I’m talking about by the labels. You’ve got to learn the right way. Illmind: Yeah, you have to make mistakes. We’ve all signed shitty deals at some point. Rob Markman: Let, let me ask you a question
now just because it kind of talking about declining revenue streams, at least when it
comes on directly associated with the music and the placement of beats or the back end
publishing. Now that we’re fully immersed in the streaming
era, sales are, like you said, I think account for maybe 5%… Statik Selektah: For a CDs. Rob Markman: For CDs. Statik Selektah: CDs are not even… Vinyl is actually bigger than the CDs is right
now. Rob Markman: But sales for the most part isn’t
necessarily a factor. Streaming is where it’s at. We’re kind of told two different stories. We’re told that if you read the trade magazines
and billboards and stuff like that, there’s a lot of reports that music revenue was up. Streaming is helping bring back the revenue
to music. Then you also hear the horror stories of when
TM88 says, “I didn’t get anything off of producing XO Tour Llif3 for Lil Uzi Vert,” and that
could’ve been with whatever he negotiated. I don’t know. We kind of hear two horror stories or two
different stories. Where does the truth lie? Is the money back in the music business, especially
for producers and songwriters and those behind the scenes or is it not what it used to be? Illmind: From my personal experience and what
I’ve been observing, I think we’re sort of just still in this storm and people are still
trying to figure it out. I don’t think we have a full 100% grasp on
this entire thing being organized. Like, “Hey, like I get a placement on a major
label. My attorney negotiates. Everything is signed. My publishing is set. I have a publishing deal. I’m supposed to get a check at this exact
time for this much at this percentage rate.” It’s just, to me there’s too many songwriters,
too many producers, too many songs for really any sustainable system to keep track of that
properly. I do think that there’s a bunch of money sort
of floating, waiting to be collected. I just think we’re all scrambling to try to
figure out what’s what and who’s who to try to collect that stuff. I do think the money is there, but I think
we just need to figure out how to collect that money in the most effective way possible
and I don’t think we’ve figured that out yet. Rob Markman: Statik, you got any thoughts
on… Statik Selektah: There’s just so many different
angles of talking about it because I’m an artist and I’m also a producer and I’m also
a label owner, so it’s like there’s so many different angles to it. First and foremost, this is something that
kids need to understand or up and coming producers. If you’re producing on an independent album,
you’re not going to see any mechanicals. It’s not happening. There’s some good, well known labels that
don’t pay that out to this day. You’re not going to get that. In that case, you want to get your money up
front because unless something is placed in a movie or a TV show or a trailer or a video
game, that’s when you’re getting decent money. If you’re relying on the mechanicals, even
with some of these major labels, it’s like every time they go out to dinner with the
artists and some DJs and all that, they got to recoup all that before you’re even thinking
about getting the mechanical royalties. Rob Markman: So every Uber taken in the name
of promoting a project. Illmind: A lot of times we’re at the bottom
of the list, the priority list. All these other expenses get the first shot
and then it’s us. Rob Markman: I want to jump ahead into something
and we’re going to come back into something else. A few weeks ago, Jadakiss, I don’t know if
you saw was on Joe Budden, on his show and interviewed and kind of dropped a nugget and
said that he was still getting calls from producers who worked on his ‘Freddy vs.
Jason’ Album with Fabolous that came out at the end of 2017 and was saying that the
label still hadn’t paid certain producers for it and producers are calling him. Jada was like, “Well, I don’t handle those
payouts. That, that that’s the label.” We’re about a year and a half removed from
that album? I know you said that things are slow and the
pipeline is kind of clogged up, but is that what people should expect, a year and a half
to be paid? Illmind: I mean, it’s just so… it just depends
on so many different things, man. Statik Selektah: That’s never happened to
me, but I’m also… it gets complicated when you do something, especially with like someone
like Def Jam. You get sent an ACH form. You got to send in the W-9 you got to fill
out and everything got to match. Usually some of the time… Even just recently I did scratches on 2 Chainz
album. It wasn’t nothing. I didn’t produce anything on it. I did the scratches and even to get taken
care of for that was just a lot of back and forth. There’s lawyers. There’s people in accounting, all this and
you can get caught in the shuffle. Statik Selektah: The thing I always do and
my manager… Shout out to my manager at Roc Nation and
all that. They get frustrated with me sometimes because
I’m… We’ll get an email as a group with the paperwork
and all that. I fill it out within five minutes and send
it all back. Everybody’s like, “Let us do that.” I’m like, “Nah.” I want it done now because if it gets caught
in the shuffle, and this is just me being… I’ve been indie for so long. I need to relax and let them do it. Same thing with my lawyer. Shout out, Lisa. They get frustrated, but I’m like, “I gotta
do it now because it’s going to get caught in the shuffle,” and then that’s what happens. I ain’t with that. I want my check especially the money for the
beat placement, I want that within a couple months. Illmind: Then when you get placements, there’s
so many steps, like Statik said. There’s all this paperwork, first of all. Then you have to deal with co-productions,
sample clearance and if you’re a producer and you’re not providing all the information,
then again you can get lost in the shuffle. Then people forget. We have to also remember these are human beings
that we’re dealing with, so people forget sometimes. Emails get lost. Statik Selektah: Sample clearance is a whole
different conversation because I had two records on Wiz Khalifa’s album that came out two weeks
ago. One of the records, they wanted 80 grand for
the sample. I’ve never seen that in my entire life ever. I was like… They were basically, his manager was like,
“Yo, I don’t think the record’s going to make the album.” And I was like, “Nah, dude.” It was like 11:30 in the morning. I was like, “I’m going in the studio right
now and replaying it.” We went in. We replayed it. Shout out my man, Dreamlife in London. He helped out with that. He had people from all over the world sending
in pieces to replay it and we replayed it so good that they were like, “Nah, it sounds
too much like the sample.” We had to do it five times. Statik Selektah: I’m talking in a 24 hour
process, we did it five times over to the point where it got approved and finally it
made the album. If I didn’t do what I did, song would have
got scrapped. I would have took the L. Wiz would have been
frustrated. I don’t play… the turnaround in 2019, the
same way you open your phone and could reply to things, you need to be like that with the
music because you will miss the opportunity if you’re like, “Oh, I’ll send it tomorrow.” Nope, see you later. Rob Markman: Let me ask you a question then,
because Statik, you are heavily sample-based and you don’t always use samples 100% of the
time, but it’s your aesthetic and it’s really what you like and how … Statik Selektah: It’s what Hip Hop is built
off Rob Markman: Right. Sampling versus not sampling, pros and cons
from the both of you guys. Illmind: I mean at this point, it is what
it is. Whatever sounds good. I mean, we’ve got to the point where we have
software that’s powerful enough to sound real enough to make your own samples. That’s something that I do now. I know Statik is probably dibbling and dabbling
a little bit. I mean, you have all these producers that
are doing both now. I do think that there’s something special
with sample production, but then again there’s really no rules as long as it sounds good. I mean, there’s all these programs that you
can add on, like vinyl, wobble and all that stuff to make your shit sound like it’s from
vinyl. Rob Markman: You can get the crackling. Illmind: Yeah you get the crackles. I mean there’s no limits anymore. I’m a fan of both. It’s like whatever sounds good. Statik Selektah: That’s the future of it. I’m always going to sample. I probably spend more money on records than
anyone else, but it’s like the record where I’m talking about on Wiz’s album Right, that
was bought. Shout out to Gene Brown. I bought a lot of records off him. It was one of the records he sold me. Wiz made the song, loved it and all that and
then we ended up replaying and all that and we made it happen. Now check… now this is a whole different
side of it, talking about money. The reason that they wanted 80 grand was that
it was a Wall Street group that bought the label or the producer, whoever, they bought
the catalog. You got a lot of these dudes that aren’t part
of the music culture, but they’re buying these catalogs so they can be like, “Oh, you know,
people are going to sample it and we’ll get paid off it.” They played themselves because they were being
so out of this world with that price that now they didn’t get one cent and they could
have got 10-15 grand for the sample. Rob Markman: Because the original artist might’ve
been honored Statik Selektah: A lot of the time the original
artists has no power on it at all. Rob Markman: Yeah, but you look at something
like Beyonce and obviously because she’s Beyonce, but Frankie Beverly and Maze. She just sampled “Before I Let Go” and
he just came out, so many times you hear he just came out. Oh my God, I love that. She sampled this and gave this record new
life. That’s a timeless record. Statik Selektah: Oh yeah, a lot of them are
like that. Rob Markman: Artists… what I’m saying is
the original artists that you sampled may be honored that you … Statik Selektah: It could change their life. Rob Markman: But they may never even get the
chance to approve because they’ve sold the rights and now it’s just a money grab rather
than an artistic thing Statik Selektah: Exactly. Illmind: Also too… I gotta shout Statik out for this, too. I think Statik is one of the few producers
that really is hardcore with the digging and stuff. A lot of the younger producers, the younger
generation, they go digging on YouTube Rob Markman: Not Statik. Illmind: and WhoSampled and all that shit Statik Selektah: no, I’ve done it. I’ve done it. Illmind: Which is fine. I do it, too. But here’s the thing, only 10% of the global
vinyl records have been transcribed to the Internet. You’re missing out on 90% of music if you’re
not digging for real. We’re talking about hardcore digging, like
guys like Gene and then Rare Records. Statik Selektah: I got dudes in Russia, China. Illmind: Yeah, Russia and China, all these
records and no one transcribed these and that’s 90%. If you want the real shit, you got to go record
shopping. Statik Selektah: There’s still a lot of sounds
out there and a lot of music to be… There’s nothing in the world like taking something
that’s been completely forgot about that doesn’t even exist really in the world besides in
these warehouses or records and stuff and turning it into new life and seeing the artist’s
reaction. That’s like the coolest thing I’ve ever seen
in my life. I know we talked about it with the Legendary
record, with Joey and J Cole and all that. Statik Selektah: Joey and J Cole, yeah. Statik Selektah: James Mtume ended up being
a good friend of mine and his father’s in the Heath Brothers. He has such a great history and Juicy Fruit
and all that. He would come to my studio and I would show
him all these records I sample them on illegally and he would still just bug out and be like,
“Man, the energy.” Some of them got cleared, some of them didn’t,
but the point is these… there’s other guys that hate it. Some jazz musicians will not let you do it. They say no to everything, but other ones
love it. It’s energy, man. Rob Markman: Then there’s some horror stories
with rock groups. Illmind: Yeah, of course. Rob Markman: I remember Steely Dan taking
a bunch of Lord Tariq and Peter Gunz … Statik Selektah: That’s their fault though
the way they did it. They put out the record, didn’t clear it. Illmind: You still see when you look at the
Top 10 Billboard, there’s at least three or four sampled records on there. You have the Old Town Road. That’s a sample from… Rob Markman: Trent Reznor. Illmind: Trent Reznor’s guitar loop and you
know Cardi B, I Like It. Shout to J. White. That record is crazy. Statik Selektah: Cardi’s winning with that
because not everybody has this like big Atlantic budget, but they made the record. They went to the person, cleared it, did everything. They knew exactly what… When a record like that, and same thing with
Beyonce, they know it’s going to be so big. Illmind: They know. Rob Markman: They’re not taking a chance. Statik Selektah: The artist would be completely…
they’d be a moron to not meet them halfway and give them a good split on it. I remember Rich Harrison was telling me Dangerous
in Love, Crazy in Love and all those records and they were giving him… even Beyonce was
making sure he got a nice chunk of the record. Even though the sample wanted a lot, it’s
because those records they fuel the whole company. They keep the lights on. Rob Markman: Everybody wins. Have you ever… man, you play so much, especially
in the recent years on the Black Panther soundtrack. J Cole, Love Yourz, on Drake, on Nicki Minaj’s
album. These are big artists, big high stake records,
big high moments in music. Statik just kind of gave us a horror story
where he had to put his cape on and save the day to be able to save the sample. Are there any stories like that? I’m sure you got. Any that you can speak on? Illmind: You know what? Honestly, nothing recently. Nothing as high stakes, but I will say that
oftentimes you’ll get a situation where I’ll show a beat or a track to an artist and then
they might commit to it and then I’ll show it to another big artist, and then it’s who
do you choose? Then it’s like, “Yo, but I gave it to you
last month.” Rob Markman: J. Cole or Drake, who do I choose? Illmind: I’m not going to name names, but
it’ll happen and it gets a little complicated especially if those two artists know each
other and you have certain situation with someone and it can get a little weird. Statik Selektah: It’s always the gamble with
that too because not even about who you like more or who’s the biggest artist or any of
that. There’s a gamble that that record’s never
even going to come out. Illmind: Exactly. Statik Selektah: Then it gets wasted and I
always think about that when it could be the biggest rapper in the world versus an up and
coming cat that I know is going to use it. You’ve got to use your better judgment for
that. Rob Markman: Or if it’s going to be a single
for one guy and maybe an album cut or an iTunes bonus for another. Statik Selektah: The first record I did with
Eminem, I was in Florida at my man’s house and there was a dude sitting on the couch
and he was like, “Yo, I’ll go to the ATM and take out 500 bucks for that beat right now.” I was like, “Bro, I ain’t selling beats for
500 bucks.” I was sitting there thinking about it. I was like, “Oh, I could go to the casino. We can go to Wet Willies.” I was like, “You know what?” Illmind: That’s crazy. Statik Selektah: I was like, “Fuck it. Go get the bread.” He came back. He was like, “Oh, it wouldn’t let me take
out that much.” I was like, “Forget it, bro.” That record ended up being an Eminem record. I didn’t even… Rob Markman: Was that Detroit Versus Everybody? Statik Selektah: No, it was the Richard joint
with Obie Trice. Illmind: Every big placement is such a crap
shoot. When you think about this story of like where
that original beat was from or when you made it, it’s always some crazy random thing where
it’s like, for instance the record, I did “You’re Welcome” on the Moana soundtrack
is one of my biggest placements for Disney. There’s so many things that had to happen
to lead up to get that placement. Funny enough that Statik’s here, that placement
never would have happened if it wasn’t for Statik. I’ll tell you why. Statik Selektah: I didn’t know that. Illmind: So it goes Statik Selektah, Disney. Statik Selektah: Can my daughter get a sweatshirt
or something? She likes Moana. Illmind: Let me know the size. I’ll try to make it happen. What was it, 2012, you were working on Jared
Evan album? Statik Selektah: Yup. Illmind: I think it was 2012, right, 2013? Statik Selektah: 2012, yeah. Illmind: Shout the Jared Evan. I pull up the Statik’s crib because I was
helping Jared with some of the vocals and stuff. Same day I was at Statik’s crib Joell Ortiz
pulls up. That was the first time I met Joell. Joell pulls up. Rob Markman: Wow. Illmind: We exchanged phone numbers. We become really good friends. Statik Selektah: I never even knew that story. Illmind: Yeah, we met at your house. Then 2015, me and Joell ended up doing an
album together, Human. That was the same year that I met Lin Manuel
Miranda, creator of Hamilton on Broadway. That Human album ended up being one of Lin’s
favorite albums. Then he reached out to me regarding the beats
that led to Hamilton and then that led to the Disney placement, You’re Welcome. That was five, six years in the making. Never would have knew that would happen. It’s just stuff like that. Every big moment for a producer, I feel like
it’s always rooted from just something so random. Rob Markman: Yeah, a lot of big moments happen
in Statik’s crib, meeting Mac Miller. Illmind: Rest in peace. Statik Selektah: These are the careers that
are basically started in that crib. Rob Markman I met Action Bronson in your crib. Statik Selektah: Mac Miller, Action Bronson,
Freddie Gibbs, Joey BadA$$. There’s so many careers that the first project
was worked on in that… That was Mac’s first feature ever. Rob Markman: Yeah, I remember. Statik Selektah: It’s the first time in New
York, all that. It’s crazy. Rob Markman: I remember. Statik Selektah: That crib was just so legendary. Illmind: Something about the energy over there,
man. Rob Markman: It was dope. One thing I want to ask too before we get
out here, again, because we’re in the streaming era, this is in the news a lot. The US Copyright Royalty Board said over the
next five years that they’re going to raise the rates from 10.5% and 15.1%. That’s about a 40% increase for producers
and songwriters. Now typically, artists can do things that
producers can’t. Artists can go on tour. It’s kind of hard to arrange a producer tour. You know what I’m saying? Different placements and beats, so a lot of
times, and you guys do a great job at being in front of the scenes. A lot of times the producers and songwriters
are behind the scenes. There’s been this lobbying to get producers
and songwriters more of the royalty share. Rob Markman: What did you think when Spotify,
Google, Pandora, Amazon, are all fighting back for this pay increase for songwriters? What did you think when seen this? Do you feel it too also? Does it actually affect your pockets, this
increase that they’re talking? Illmind: I don’t know. I haven’t felt it yet. Knock on wood, obviously. When it comes to collecting royalties and
publishing and points and stuff like that, obviously I’m sure Statik’s in the same position,
we have our publishers who collect and we trust and rely on them to collect what we’re
owed. I think not enough time has passed yet to
really, for me to honestly, really know for sure if it’s impacting me positively or negatively. Hopefully, it’ll be a positive impact and
a pay increase obviously sounds incredible. There’s so much language in those contracts. There’s probably so many little loopholes
that I would go mad if I try to dissect it. Shout out to my lawyer, Vinny. I’ll just call Vinny and be like, “How we
looking? How’s this looking? Are we good, bad, what kind of shape are we
in? Illmind: I think it’s a waiting game right
now honestly. The fact that there are people in these companies
that are lobbying for producers and writers is a good thing and I think it’s up to us
to… Obviously what we do need is like some kind
of producer union or songwriter’s union of some sort that we can all come together and
really show our power. Rob Markman: That’s been floated around a
lot. Shout out to Sonny Digital. I know Sonny Digital has been vocal about
that for years, about having this producer’s union. Statik, what do you see when you see that
a lot of these streaming companies are fighting back. Statik Selektah: I see a lot of selfishness,
man because it’s funny me and Bun did this album and we decided to go with Tidal exclusively
for a week. Obviously there was an agreement made that
made it make sense for us to go with them for a week. Beyond that, I see all these comments, not
too much, but once in a while there’d be someone like, “Oh, F, Tidal. I got Spotify or this or that,” and they’d
be like, “I’m not switching.” I was reading people’s opinions and I’m like,
“You understand that Tidal pays three times what Spotify does to the artists.” I don’t know about how the producer thing
breaks down with that, but it’s such a minuscule amount still that I can’t even imagine how
much more minuscule the producer percent is. Statik Selektah: Even as an artist, it’s like
someone like Tidal literally pays four times… yeah, four times as much as a Spotify. Rob Markman: They pay more than Apple as well. Statik Selektah: Yeah, it’s three times more
than Apple. It’s so ridiculous because some of the people
leaving these comments were artists and I’m like, “Why don’t you support the people that
support you?” Tidal’s one of those companies that’s actually…
obviously Hov is the face of it. He’s fighting for these rights and I want
to see more people support those kinds of companies as opposed to a Spotify who’s trying
to push back against it. I don’t care if y’all want to take me off
your playlist or whatever. I’m standing up for the, for the artistry
behind this because, not just being an artist, but a producer and all that, people are really
getting ripped off and I want to see more people in the industry fighting for what’s
right. Rob Markman: Part of the thing, Tidal does
pay out more. Spotify has a bigger audience. You may cash out more from Spotify just because
of the sheer amount of audience versus Tidal. Statik Selektah: Can you imagine if they were
doing the same… Rob Markman: But they’ve been in business
a lot longer. Statik Selektah: There’s a lot of funky things
with streaming because first of all, people get paid out the same no matter what. You see all these plaques. I go to certain producers’ houses and I
know you got plaques on plaques. I got a couple. I’m happy. Rob Markman: Illmind needs more walls. Statik Selektah: But when you look at these
plaques, it’s… The thing that streaming changed is, let’s
go back to 2007, the end of the CD era or whatever and you had cats like Atmosphere,
different indie artists that were doing great selling 50. Even Sean Price, rest in peace. He had an album that did like 30-40,000 or
whatever and that’s amazing. The money made from that was bananas. Now if someone does that same thing streaming,
it’s like… Illmind: Nothing. Rob Markman: I do say that the money,
kind of that blue collar artist, that artist where we’re not talking about the Jay-Zs and
Beyonces. We’re not talking about millions and millions
of dollars, but where you might be able to make a hundred, two hundred thousand dollars
a year off of your artistry. Statik Selektah: More than that. Rob Markman: You know what I’m saying? Statik Selektah: My point is, is when you
look at these plaques now, not to cut you off. When you look at these plaques now it’s all
built off the hits because now if you have like a hit or two on the album and you got
to cookie cutter music or the flavor of the month, as long as you have one or two of those
songs on the album. I saw an album. I’m not even going to throw the artists under
the bus because they’re a friend of mine. I was at my friend’s house and I seen the
plaque and I was like, “15 million sold? What are you talking about?” That’s more than like 50 Cent ‘Get Rich
or Die Tryin’.’ I’m looking at the plaque reading it like,
“What? This is all because the one single with a
superstar on it streamed so many billion times or whatever that they equal the other streams
up to 15 million sold. Rob Markman: So the high tide raises the boat. Statik Selektah: Get the fuck outta here. That’s not even realistic. Statik Selektah: If that was a CD and there
was no streaming, it might’ve done one or two million, but because these hits are just
all over the world, people are turning on their phones and the featured song or that
song of the day is right there, that brings in a whole other conversation about playlisting
and how those companies influence the kids with that, too. There’s just so much that goes against the
musician that makes albums as opposed to just trying to make hits and having no… If you’re just a great rap artist that makes
serious music and album songs, doesn’t try to make a hit single, you’re… Illmind: It’s tough. Statik Selektah: It’s looking bad for you
because the streaming’s not for you. Rob Markman: Yeah, it’s tough. Yeah. It looks like… But we see this and I agree with you 100%
and I feel the same way, but it also goes just to keep the historical context, I think
the medium in which music is delivered, when it was cassettes, it always kind of affects
how albums are made. A cassette would affect the runtime because
you wanted to fill up Side A and Side B almost equally. Illmind: A side, B side, yup. Rob Markman: Then when we got to CDs, that
was 80 minutes of music and so artists felt like they had to make 22-song albums with
six bonuses because you had 80 minutes that you had to fill up Statik Selektah: That starts a new convo though
because I don’t know how this works with streaming. This is something I need to learn about. On an album, only 10 songs traditionally pay
out publishing off an album. That’s why back in the day you would see albums
and they’d be so short, especially from rock bands, they’d make 10 songs albums because
it pays out 10 songs. After you go past those 10 songs, publishing
gets funky. Now the artist is going to make money no matter
what because those songs… Drake can make… Illmind: What’s it called? An artist cap or something I think it’s called. Statik Selektah: Yeah, The Dream can make
a 40 song album and that’s great for him because all those streams added together makes it
look great at the end of the day. But what about those 40 producers? If it’s 40 songs, it’s probably 80 people
involved. I don’t know how that, who he’s working with. Rob Markman: How do you split that up? But you also get the idea, at least at this
point in his career, Dream is doing it more for the art. I didn’t think he was trying to do… Statik Selektah: I get it. I’m just talking about in a situation, you
look at a Kanye record and there’s 15 producers on it. It’s like how is that or any of them even… I definitely want to have an off the air convo
with him. I’ll be like, “Oh Illmind killed that,” and
then I’ll be like, “Oh damn, there’s 10 other people.” I hope my man’s being taken care of. Rob Markman: We talk about that a lot. Just so you know, a lot of people ask for
Illmind on Deconstructed and we always talk about trying to make it work and on a particular
song and they’d be like, okay, but we kind of need this other producer to make it work. It’s just scheduling that doesn’t line up,
but there’s a lot of collaboration that goes on, which is, is dope. At the same time, I’m sure it affects the
business. Illmind: Yeah, for sure. If you’re doing it with other people, that’s
less of a percentage you’re getting. Then there’s the argument of the record never
would be the record without those people involved. I’m like Statik, man. I’m a fan of like putting the art first. If it takes for two or three people to come
in here and make this record the best it can be, then I’m all for that. As opposed to, let me just get a bigger percentage
and do it myself. There’s pros and cons. Statik Selektah: At the end of the day, it’s
about shaping the music. Illmind was, like you said, he was putting
out drum kits before… I remember sitting back and being like, “Yo,
everybody’s bugging with the drum kit.” I ended up doing it later. I used to be like, “Everybody’s bugging leasing
beats,” and I just started recently just because I understand times are changing. I don’t have to do that. But I get to see so many people in the world
that I wouldn’t have connected with tell me stories in the DM or emails or whatever and
be like, “Yo.” Everybody has a story behind something and
then they put it out and then look at Old Town Road or whatever. That’s the name of the song? Statik Selektah: That got picked up on BeatStars,
shout out to BeatStars. They got a really dope community and look
now that kid’s good. If there wasn’t no BeatStars, that kid might
be on SoundCloud trying to get randoms to get his beats. It’s about being able to get discovered at
the end of the day. The world’s so big now and the Internet connects
so many people that as many things that are bad about that, it’s just as many things amazing. Illmind: Agreed. Statik Selektah: There’s no limits to things. Like I said, without him doing the drum kits
and without him doing original samples and being involved in those records with 10 people,
he wouldn’t be able to do the, “Yo, I’m coming to your city, come through.” Illmind: Exactly. Statik Selektah: You have so many other revenues
that come in because you sacrifice in other ways. The same thing with me, all the times I lost
out on records, I got 2% because of the sample took it all. All the times I did that, got me to where
I can do… Rob Markman: Get you in the room. Statik Selektah: Yeah, it’s about climbing
up. It’s not a straight ladder, man. It’s rock climbing. Illmind: Exactly. Rob Markman: That’s dope. I appreciate both of ya’ll time and it was
really important to had this conversation. I felt like with everything we see going on
in the news, like I said, around producers, I always want to have these kinds of discussions. To one, give you guys a platform and then
two really kind of educate the ones coming up. I know you do that with your Blapchat podcast
and that’s what it’s really about, man. Illmind: Check out the Rob Markman episode
and the Statik episode. Rob Markman: It’s a good episode, man. Illmind: Thank you, guys. Rob Markman: No, man. Thank you for coming and thank y’all for tuning
in. Hope y’all learned something. Definitely hit us up in the comments. We going to answer as many questions as we
can, man. We really want to help you guys out with this
episode. Until next week, this For The Record. Peace.

Author Since: Mar 11, 2019

  1. TOPICS:::

    2:38 !llmind explains how he has set up multiple revenue streams as a producer
    4:50 Statik Selektah on how he generates income as a DJ and producer
    6:11 Why selling beats isn't enough to make a living these days
    6:44 Why producers don't receive large upfront fees anymore
    12:38 Why up and coming producers shouldn't rely on mechanical royalties and should try to be paid upfront
    15:58 Statik explains the complicated business side of sampling
    18:11 Why samples can be so expensive to use
    19:42 !llmind on why producers shouldn't only source samples from the internet
    29:12 How streaming has changed how we calculate sales
    33:17 Rob explains how the medium through which we deliver music changes how the music is made
    35:09 Why !llmind collaborates with other producers even if it means splitting the publishing

  2. Great discussion, slowly we are becoming a focal point on the business side and public eye. Times will soon change.

  3. Selektah is a cocky, treat people who can do nothing for him like shit kind of person….fuck that guy

  4. Jay-Z's "Dig A Hole" by static selekta one of the hardest beats I ever heardโšก๐Ÿ”ฅ๐Ÿ”ฅ๐Ÿ”ฅ

  5. 34:40 I said the same shyt when I look at the credits of a Kanye song and I'm blown away like wtf!!?! It took 15 people to write this shyt??!

  6. It's interesting how the host hooked me from the first minute. I feel like Producergrind Podcast spends too much time asking general questions like "Can you tell us how you got to where you are now?" Our host here started with a playful yet relevant question, "Did anybody here make any hits today?" to which the guests responded, "Not today but last night" giving him a perfect segwey into "Do you know when it's a hit" etc etc.

  7. Am a producer but I also do graphic design, website and marketing. So I agree you got to have more than one pillar.
    To see my work
    IG flyerdepo
    Website design


  9. Ive made over 6k from royalties in the last 2 years, and damn was it hard just to hit this amount. Network, and diversify the way you collect on your music. Think of your songs as real estate, people stop by rent it for 30 seconds, and you get paid. Get songs out, volume can help right now with these terrible payouts, later on you'll have more material making you more as payout rates increase.

  10. Watch a 30 mins video in 3 mins. The BEST extension in google chrome store.
    Plus,the state of the art Artificial Intelligence algorithms automatically analyzes videos to locate and pull the precise location of key points of interest like – topics, scenes, people, sentiments, brands, expressions, labels and much more. Allowing you to rapidly gain intelligent insights from any video.

  11. To be honest no one is getting paid from streaming properly that includes artist , producers , engineers etc….. 1500 streams is 1 album sale thatโ€™s the first problem there. Then artist arenโ€™t even getting 20 cent per dollar on streams. Thatโ€™s why a billion stream only equals a million dollars basically. This stream shit is fucked up

  12. The key thing they said in the interview is the artists looked out for the producers as well as the artist that were sampled and made sure they got hooked up. Simple [email protected] Take care of your people and make sure everyone eats. Much love for this interview!! Get MADLIB up in here! Get Danger Mouse in here!

  13. I knew to the producer side of things so these buds been helping me understand the business a lil better but the turnaround on producers getting paid is insane I'm old skool you pay for the service you want I'm like a artist who's signed wanta my beats the artist needs to pay me up front sense they got the advance from the label then you go back and chase the lable for your money I shouldn't have to do that and to here you ain't getting paid until months later for stuff that's crazy smh

  14. The music business is a slave industry if you not getting television or commercial or game placement you getting pennies

  15. Yeah it's tough but I need more knowledge on how I can overcome that. From my First to my Last song has to be "serious" music. Yeah I can have fun with the shits but it has to be good quality soundings music with a great beat and great lyrics and that's all Im trying to do. And I have writings for months and can freestyle. Mann ๐Ÿ’ก๐Ÿ’ก

  16. Wow! Iโ€™ve been sleeping on some things.

    Mad props to the host and the guest artists/producers on offering this educational and valuable information.

    I really appreciate it. Thank you!

  17. Great interview. Excellent content and conversation with both of these intelligent brothers and amazing men.

  18. I feel like producers really letting people fuck em over.. Hip Hop is the biggest genre in the world right now. Rappers don't rap no more so they're 100% depending on good beats. It's crazy that producers get paid last, and sometimes not at all. It's a serious structural and cultural problem in the community, and as the producer community has grown exponentially the last years I can't see why we still let everybody fuck us over.

  19. Thank you so much for this video. It really gave me insight into how producers make business and stay sustainable. It answered so many questions I've had for years.

  20. ๐Ÿ‡ญ๐Ÿ‡น mto fresh on YOUTUBE YALL and zoeent on YOUTUBE ๐Ÿ‡ญ๐Ÿ‡น๐Ÿ‡ญ๐Ÿ‡น

  21. Djing is where the money is! I seen 9th wonder get a 15k check from djing a venue in Atlanta for 3 hours. And just blaze is over in Tokyo doing festivals getting 100k per show . They not thinking about placements

  22. Kanye is dope but sometimes heโ€™ll use 10 producers on 1 track that just decent . Sometimes itโ€™s too much

  23. Sooo good! I don't produce but am insanely grateful for you to have put this together. Your interview skills are some of the best I've seen. Thank you thank you thank you!!

  24. so they where lucky enough to paid sometimes, otherwise don't have a clue. than they make excuses for the Labels, about some shuffle and absent mindedness. The labels don't shuffle or forget what they claim you own

  25. started producing 1 month ago and it seems nearly impossible to make a living of that after seeing this video xd

  26. Please help me understand…… HOW! These dudes make the production for folks albums but NEVER get paid.

    Like what kind of slimy grimy industry are we in ? I swore RAP / HIPHOP was an aggressive genre. Is everybody PC now ?

    I remember the days when guns was drawn if you fxcked the business up. Now youโ€™re blackballed ?

    This industry is so C O R N Y.

  27. Just selling beats don't cut it, don't get me wrong selling beats make money . The BIGGER pay is in Tv, Films and game developers that has the budget to spend. This is the BEST money pipe line a producers should focus on. Just 1 good film or TV show paid 10k or more . BUT please realize when you submit your copyrights the process will take 7 months to get your certificate of registration. You need this to prove you owe 200% rights to your music. (100% sound recording and 100% publishing) –

  28. Mto fresh on YOUTUBE YALL good music we new๐Ÿ‡ญ๐Ÿ‡น๐Ÿ‡ญ๐Ÿ‡น๐Ÿ‡ญ๐Ÿ‡น๐Ÿ‡ญ๐Ÿ‡น๐Ÿ‡ญ๐Ÿ‡น๐Ÿ‡ญ๐Ÿ‡น๐Ÿ‡ญ๐Ÿ‡น๐Ÿ‡ญ๐Ÿ‡น๐Ÿ”ฅ๐Ÿ”ฅ๐Ÿ”ฅ๐Ÿ™๐Ÿ™๐ŸŽค๐ŸŽค๐ŸŽค๐ŸŽค๐ŸŽค๐ŸŽค๐ŸŽค๐ŸŽคโœ”โœ”โœ”๐Ÿคฉ๐Ÿคฉ๐Ÿคฉ๐Ÿ”ฅ

  29. Illmind isn't wrong schools not teaching us. When they started talking about royalties and publishing I was so confused lol

  30. 6:13 bullshit you most definitely can live off of making beats for the rest of your life. Just because that dude didnโ€™t go that far in production enough to be able to live off of it does not mean it is impossible. Look at professional producers like metro and murda making around 15k for a beat they made in 20 minutes, if ur making beats all day for that amount of money you can definitely live off of beats for the rest of your life. And you wonโ€™t be getting money just from beats only you can make money off posting on ig, ads, revenue, and smaller things. It is definitely possible to live off of beats. Remember, you are one beat away and your network is your net worth

  31. Feels like these dudes out here tryin to scare cats from getting in the game. Like protect your bag an all but if it was that hard no one would do it…

  32. I'm Not A Person That Usually Comments, But I Hoped Here Would Be A Conversation About How Much Money Is Made Per 'x' Amount Of Streams and How 'US' As Producers Are Being Cut Out Because The Artist Or Label Wants To Take 100% Of It Between Them. I Hope This Is Something That'll Be Taken Into Consideration Because What I'm Not Sure A Lot Of People Know Is That

    If An Independent Artist Releases A Song On Spotify & It Gets 1 Million Streams, Then That Amounts To Around 4000$ Of Real Money, which, As I Previously Stated;

    We're Being Left Out Of…

  33. Okay. So say you host a producer event for a film. What do you promise your investors? Like double the money if it's a hit? How does that even work? I want to know how they make the money in the first place.

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