when we talk about the damage that the anti
vaccine movement does and has done, we usually talk about putting individual kids
at risk or causing localized breakouts of diseases that maybe we thought we had eradicated
or almost completely eradicated, but there’s now a new report that confirms that the anti-vaccine
movements, negative effects are way bigger than a lot of people are giving them credit
for. The anti-vaccine movement has actually undone
decades, decades of progress in disease prevention and it’s truly disgusting. This is one of those Kooky movements that
is actually really damaging and threatening to human health. Flat earthers prism. We’ve talked about flat earth or ism before. If you push me, I can come up with some indirect
ways in which flat earth or Isum connects with other things that are damaging more broadly,
but it is sort of a stretch. Anti Vax is truly a disaster. The who no longer considers measles eradicated
in the United Kingdom and now Albania, the Czech Republic and Greece, which have also
lost their previous measle free status. And this is because of the anti-vaccine movement,
which claims as you know, that measles is just not super serious. It’s not that common. Most people don’t die of it, so therefore
it’s not necessary to be vaccinated against measles. And of course what they fail to understand
what that, uh, they, they might call it logic, but it’s really the opposite is that because
of vaccines over the last 50 years, measles is not very prevalent. And that is because the measles vaccine has
been so effective. Remember that measles used to kill more than
two and a half million people per year in the early 1960s right before the measles vaccine
was introduced. And this has actually happened because this
has gone beyond just people on the Internet repeating the nonsense because you see even
elected officials in some places, if not openly supporting anti vacs, at least sort of playing
coy with it or conceding some elements of it. Like even our President Donald Trump did during
the 2016 Republican primary. You may remember during Republican debates,
Donald Trump parroting anti vacs talking points. This also relates to the post truth sort of
element of the Internet age where when you try to engage with these people and uh, try
to ask the normal questions, one would ask about evidence and all of this other stuff. They’ll say, listen, you know what? In the end your mind is made up and my mind
is made up and somehow those positions are supposed to be considered equivalent even
though the science is all on one side. They pretend that this is just a matter of
perspective, for example, or the freedom to just believe what you want to believe. It is extraordinarily infuriating and some
incorrectly will say, oh, anti-vaxxers are just really dumb. That’s all. It’s just these are stupid people lacking
intellectual capacity. I don’t believe that this is true at all. I think that anti-vaxxers are likely of average
intelligence to slightly above average intelligence, but they have a combination of intellectual
insecurity combined with either conspiratorial tendencies and or an extreme antipathy towards
government or corporations depending on which side of the anti-vaxxer movement they exist
on. And it becomes sort of a perfect storm for
getting pulled down or going down the rabbit hole combined. By the way, with living in a time where thanks
to vaccines, there are way fewer issues with many conditions, which unfortunately just
reinforces this idea that vaccines are not only bad and harmful, but potentially completely
unnecessary. And then on the back end, this lends itself
to massive propaganda efforts. We talked about how a Russian trolls and these
dis information campaigns took advantage of trying to foment racial unrest by using targeted
social media posts in places where there have been issues like in Ferguson, Missouri, or
in Baltimore already, racial issues have an often involving police. Russian trolls have taken advantage of that. Russian trolls are also believed to be using
and spreading anti-vaccination propaganda. In the same way. There are numerous headlines you can find. Russian trolls promoted anti-vaccination propaganda,
which may have caused measles outbreak according to one group of researchers. And believing in this stuff is in a sense
a choice in that it’s so easy to just do a simple Google search and you find authoritative
sources that tell you MMR is not linked to autism dispelling all of the other myths. So it lends itself to propaganda zation by
adversaries in the exact same way that Russia has tried and succeeded in fomenting racial
unrest through their social media campaigns. This is really bad stuff. And most of the people in the movement don’t
understand the role that they are playing and the importance of this in, in, uh, connecting
to so many of these other movements, which I think they would probably be fighting against
if they understood the interrelatedness. So this is really bad. This is flat earth stuff which has sort of
minimal, systemic and broader impacts. They are undoing decades of progress. The WHO sees it. There are a number of good reports about it
now and unfortunately it this, this, you wouldn’t think this, uh, being a sort of a, you know,
rational accepting of science, um, a program with an audience that mostly does the same. Every time I talk about this, I get very angry
emails from anti-vaccine people in the audience who say, you’re usually right on most stuff,
but on this you’re just missing the boat, David. It’s dangerous stuff.

Author Since: Mar 11, 2019

  1. Intelligence an systematic rational thinking are not one in the same. It is possible to be very "intelligent" in the sense that you are quick and flexible at confirming your own biases and first impressions, rather than at getting the right answer. There were a lot of smart people who existed before the scientific method, and they probably believed a lot of really silly things (even given what might have been gleaned systematically from what they knew at the time).

  2. This touched my family. My hippy wife didn't want to vaccinate our two kids. I was opposed, but, you know how things can be, I allowed it to happen.

    So far, they have not got sick. Lucky

  3. If those anti-faxers get my nephew killed i will… probably be extremely depressed please listen to your doctor you may have "studied" for hours but a doctor studied for years with actual patients

  4. I've always been highly intelligent and I fell for the anti vaxx nonsense. Most of them are far from stupid. Thing is, when you're really intelligent, you can come up with really complex bullshit. Cosmic skeptic did a good speech about that called something like "why do smart people believe silly things"

  5. How about we quarantine all anti-vaxxers until they get the vaccine? If they want to be stubborn, let them stay locked up.

  6. Can we also talk about how the negative view people have on autism drives them to actually put their kids in danger for fear of them contracting a genetic developmental disorder that basically just means your kid will be pretty smart but socially a bit stupid. We're not disabled, diseased or a vegetable as some claim. People wouldn't even know most of us even have autism because most of us function relatively well even though this society wasn't built for us.

  7. Hannah Polling successfully sued the CDC for a sum of 5 million and half a million every year until she dies because they proved that vaccines gave her autism. Comparing this concern to flat earthers is incredibly ignorant and proves Dave Packman has absolutely no idea what he's talking about. Also, the drop in deaths from measles is obviously from anti septics. There are countless regional examples where the same amount of measles deaths have been avoided without the introduction of vaccines. David Packman is the one with intellectual insecurity.

  8. The problem is that governments and authorities constantly lie and hide things from us. Makes perfect sense to be sceptical.

  9. It's unfortunate that people are allowed to believe whatever crazy, bullshit, unsubstantiated things that they want. Yeah, the alternative is authoritarian as hell, some ministry of truth or some such. Still, allowing people to hold opinions that are actively harming society is worse. At the very least we need to disincentivize such behaviors and perhaps even actively punish those who do this.

  10. sounds like someone is trying to start off something bad,is this the way some people are trying to reduce the population with no immunity to diseases,what they forget is it can hit them to,spreading misinformation on vaccinations,will kill off a lot of people if there's an outbreak,one way to have more resources for whoever is left if anyone is,the thing with pandemics is it does'nt care how rich or poor you are it will kill you

  11. Trump for prison 2020. I prefer presidents who are not criminal's. ๐Ÿ”’๐Ÿ”’๐Ÿ”’๐Ÿ”’๐Ÿ”’๐Ÿ”’๐Ÿ”’๐Ÿ”’๐Ÿ”’๐Ÿ”’๐Ÿ”’๐Ÿ”’๐Ÿ”’๐Ÿ”’๐Ÿ”’๐Ÿ”’๐Ÿ”’๐Ÿ”’๐Ÿ”’๐Ÿ”’๐Ÿ”’๐Ÿ”’๐Ÿ”’๐Ÿ”’๐Ÿ”’๐Ÿ”’๐Ÿ”’๐Ÿ”’๐Ÿ”’๐Ÿ”’๐Ÿ”’๐Ÿ”’๐Ÿ”’๐Ÿ”’๐Ÿ”’๐Ÿ”’๐Ÿ”’๐Ÿ”’๐Ÿ”’

  12. Iโ€™m half convinced antivaxxers are just people that fell for more Russian psyops. The goal being a sicker enemy.

  13. Something I feel I need to say way too often:
    The biggest problem with the current world is the denial of facts. Opinions have become more valuable than facts, and one's own opinion is automatically more valid than someone else's opinion.
    I absolutely hate it, and I genuinely loathe the smugness these people possess.
    The fact that people are PROUD to be willfully ignorant, the fact that they happily confess to still thinking something even after being proven utterly wrong… these are serious problems with people and society, and I am getting closer and closer to just slapping these people in the mouth.

  14. Forcing your bullshit on kids is dangerous bullshit, freedom of choice for my kids not a corrupt corporate state…Measles only was killing 500year before vaccines, only really bad in malnourished populations…. you're talking corporate bullshit, vaccines kill kids and your insulting victims….Russian trolls, lol idiot, read a book…

  15. I almost died from measles in 1958. I was 8 years old. How anyone can just let their children be exposed to it or think it is harmless really do not know what they are talking about. They need to talk to seniors like me who came close to dying. This happened to me. It's memory I will never lose.

  16. Here in New Zealand we have a population of 4 million. We have the same amount of measles cases as the USA. In NZ its a bipartisan issues some crazy home schooled right wingers and the "hippie/organic" type leftist.

  17. As parents we are responsible for the actions of our child. Along the same lines I propose that if your child becomes ill with a disease that could be prevented with vaccines and you chose not to vaccinate, you lose custody of any children under your care and you get to defend yourself in court against child endangerment charges.

  18. I have a little boy with autism, one of the disabilities that was studied and dismissed as an effect of having the MMR(in the UK). The problem with this is that I would love to find out what causes autism so when you hear powerful stories that make people consider that the MMR is to blame it's natural to think ,maybe there is something in it, however, when I put my logical head and I think back, he was showing symptoms before the injection, mainly, not pointing and waving or talking. He would hum along to music before he could speak which are all symptoms. So if I had my time again, definitely get your kids injected, as I would.

  19. you are the first and only commentator that rightly equates the attitude of anti-vaxxers i.e. that they say it is an opinion that is as good or better than vaccinators, and that vaccinators have an opinion…like you alluded to "sometimes it shouldn't be allowed that it is okay to have an opinion, i.e. if that opinion is a real dangerous threat to the whole of the human species if allowed to be acted upon…" the WHO has mentioned that anti-vaxxer's acting on their opinions are a real and dangerous threat to the entire world's human's health…I used to think it was okay to let everyone have their own opinions but as I read more of history, I see that shouldn't be the case…some people are really misinformed and therefore very dangerous to everyone. that is why laws exist…why wars are fought…

  20. I wonder what the Venn diagram of people who think a presidential candidate in the last cycle was a Russian plant and anti-vaxxers is.

  21. The idea that tests should be done on vaccines, and many other products to he honest, by another entity than the manufacturer is actually a good idea.

  22. Look, I have the perfect solution. We quarantine all of the anti-vaxxers, give them all of these diseases at once, and the ones that survive get to rejoin society.

  23. You are on the wrong side of history on this one David. You will be proven profoundly wrong. Also, huge loss of respect for your journalistic prowess, as anyone with a modicum of intellectual integrity would do some research before vilifying PARENTS WHO HAVE LOST CHILDREN OR HAD THEM IRREPARABLY DAMAGED. Also, conflating the THEORY of vaccines (clearly you donโ€™t know shit about epidemiology)
    with vaccine damage from the highly toxic, dangerous and unnecessary adjuncts in them demonstrates your complete lack of knowledge on the subject. Surely such a controversial topic would warrant some exploration on your part.52% of American children have one or more chronic illnesses and every single one of those illnesses, every single one is listed on the ACTUAL vaccine inserts(that the Doc does NOT reveal…thatโ€™s why itโ€™s called informed consent; not โ€œanti vaxโ€. Death is just one of those potential side effects. You arenโ€™t much of a progressive anyway…unfollowing. P.S full transparency..you got a little of that Big Pharma change rattling in your pocket? Hmmm?

  24. If someone doesn't want to vaccinate their children, that's fine. Just keep your kids out of our schools and out of public places. Why should WE have to expose our children to dangerous diseases just because you're an idiot? Actually, why would you want to expose YOUR kids to completely preventable diseases?

  25. Dave, I normally like your vids, but this one is a bit off the mark from my perspective. I am in the medical field. I practice veterinary medicine. For years we had plenty of anecdotal evidence that over vaccination was causing cancer in pets. This was vehemently denied by the vaccine companies. It was vehemently denied by the AVMA also. It took YEARS for holistic vets to prove it, but prove it we did. That allowed us to make rabies vaccine, as one example, be recognized as good for 3 years (when they are good for about 10 years) rather than forcing pets to be vaccinated yearly for rabies. This also caused rabies vaccine manufacturers to stop putting in aluminum, formaldehyde and other substances that were causing the cancer. We now have what is called "pure" vaccines that contain very little of these toxins. Now, there are still potential vaccine induced medical risk issues in pets, such as immune mediated hemolytic anemia. So for older, at risk patients, I do take this into consideration before deciding whether to vaccinate for DAPPv and such. BUT in the human realm, we now have some doctors vaccinating children under 1 year old with over 20 vaccines. This IS a health risk. And while it is tragic for a child or pet to come down with a preventable disease, it is, as an emotional toll, far worse to know that your pet or child came down with a problem because YOU took the child their and held them and had them vaccinated. We also have cases of hospitals or doctors calling child welfare on parents who do not get ALL the vaccines. There was one case a few years ago where a mother refused to have her hours old baby vaccinated. The hospital confiscated the child and kicked the mother out of the hospital. It took her days to get her infant back. Imagine the feelings that created to just have given birth and have your child taken from you. Also, who the hell vaccinates a new born? We sure as hell do not do that in veterinary medicine. And this is the shit that creates the hysteria and distrust and rightfully so. When I was a kid I was vaccinated for polio, measles and maybe rubella and tetanus. That was it. That is not the case today. And I do know that in veterinary medicine their are many political and economical factors that warp medical findings. This is a fact, so how would that not be true in human medicine as well? I do not know a single person who is an "anti-vaxxer" What I do know are people who have seen children come down with autism and such within 24 hrs of being vaccinated. These incidents are real. Just as immune mediated hemolytic anemia in pets recently vaccinated are real. Just as vaccine induced sarcomas in cats and dogs are real. And I also know that we cannot believe those making money from a product to be honest about the safety of said product. Right? think tobacco and thalidomide… Hell, think canine and feline rabies vaccines. This isnt conspiracy shit, it is verifiable human/corporate greed. Listen, I do believe in vaccines. I vaccinate pets every day. What I dont believe in is over vaccinating- and that, I believe, is the problem. And anyone who believes the medical establishment actually cares about people or pets and tells the truth always about product safety is nuts. It is a money making industry, and money, not truth and not health, is their bottom line. I am quite sure I will get alot of hate for this comment, but I am tired of people with legitimate concerns being labeled kooks and dismissed without the data really being reviewed by someone without a pony in the race.

  26. Propaganda does not work on the well-informed. The US deserves it if they are so easily swayed by the propaganda for their failure to educate their citizens.

  27. Can you give us the sources for the "scientific studies" that show that russian trolls were connected to anti vaxx BS? I have a friend who acts like a RT propaganda mouth peiece on FB and I would like to provide facts for him to prove how imbecile he is behaving…

  28. How many vaccinations do children get these days?Someone told me like 21 different shots.
    I dunno,I have relatives in their nineties that are doing well for their age.Eat right,exercise and sleep goes a long way for your health.
    Not really confident in taking vaccines.
    In this day and age when school systems serve cow's milk,wheat products and have high fructose corn syrup drinks in vending machines I'm not really inclined to take their advice on health related advice.

  29. If the vaccine Works no one that was vaccinated would get even if they come into contact with someone that had it. would only affect those not vaccinated if the vaccination worked

  30. Stupid conspiracy theories are to blame for the idiocy. I believe anti vaxxers should not receive healthcare as they benefit from hospitals they put themselves in and others too. Disgusting

  31. If anti-vaxers are "of average intelligence" then they are really, really stupid. Most people in the US are barely able to walk upright. Seriously, think of the 'average' person's intelligence level. Now consider that 49 percent of the populace is dumber than that. Scary, isn't it?

  32. Vaccines are not 100% safe. The US Government has paid out over $4 billion in damages to Americans that have been damaged or killed by vaccinations. It's funny that no one ever tells you that. They need to clean these vaccines up before pumping these vaccines ladened with toxic chemicals into new born babies. Also Look at the documentaries DEADLY DECEPTION Exposing the Dangers of Vaccines, a film by Gary Null and VACCINE NATION by GaryNull PhD.

  33. "To be a scientist is to be naive. We are so focused on our search for truth, we fail to consider how few actually want us to find it. But it is always there, whether we see it or not, whether we choose to or not. The truth doesn't care about our needs or wants. It doesn't care about our governments, our ideologies, our religions. It will lie in wait for all time." – Valery Legasov, in the "Chernobyl" television series.

  34. The flat Earth nonsense prepares the people to become susceptible to the antivax rhetoric which all leads to a society weak in the sciences and primed for authoritarian rule.
    The cleverness of getting people to voluntary put a collar around their necks.

  35. My son caught Chicken Pox between his first immunization and his second. Iโ€™m to the point, if an anti-vaccine parent causes a death or permanent damage to a a child in my family who is either not old enough to be vaccinated or has compromised immune system, I will consider it murder. They are putting others at risk, by their decision.

  36. No David, flat earthers being dangerous isn't a stretch . They all come from the same conspiratorial ideology. Misinformation leads to Trump leads to lack of climate knowledge leads to severe health problems etc…..

  37. He points out that WHO does not consider certain European countries measles free but doesn't give the reason of open borders. Why should Western cultures be forced to vaccinate to protect themselves from infected individuals?

  38. What an ignorant statement to say that the science is just on one side without addressing adverse reactions and the long term health affects.

  39. Do you believe there could be selective groups or regions targeting? (This could be a long term systematic weapon or "scalpel" to create "one perfect world")

    Would you bet your offspring lives and just trust there are just vaccines? (Not much I can do about it because short term, is more risky not to vaccine my kids… so I take them to receive each required vaccine…. but, it just makes a lot of noise in mi head)

  40. Isn't it interesting that antivaxxers tend to also spread other debunked conservative pseudoscience, such as Charles Murray's 'the bell curve', which should not be considered a serious scientific treatise as it was never submitted for peer review, probably due to obvious 'flaws' such as specifically excluding the scores of blacks who scored too highly and including scores that are literally from a school for the mentally challenged.

    Imo the anti vax movement can be directly tied back to royalist, malthusean, 'conservative' beliefs that the world is overpopulated and that a 'gentle,' 'soft kill' solution is to purposefully spread disease and withhold medical treatment, other than sham treatments, for the poor. Such beliefs are directly specified by Malthus in his book 'an essay on the principle of population', though most people today know better than to spread such absolute crap.

    I welcome skepticism and the testing of popular treatments, but those who perpetuate anti vax are either liars or unwitting pawns who themselves are among the targets for extermination.

  41. Nice propaganda David. Progressives are always criticizing the big industries and corporations, but they consider the vaccine industry to be infallible for some reason.

  42. If not getting their vaccines only killed anti-vaxxers, I wouldn't mind a damn bit. But unfortunately…

  43. Who the hell cares. It has a mortality rate lower than the flu. Some people are however being irreparably have by these vaccines without the ability to file lawsuits against the manufacturer of these medications.

  44. The measles is hardly a deadly disease… the real problem is that manufacturers of vaccines canโ€™t be held liable for vaccine injuries, yet they profit to the tune of billions of dollars each year. The solution… either make them liable for injuries, or mandate that vaccines are produced non profit. Big Pharma cannot have it both ways

  45. It might not be super relevant but I speculate that 98% of flat-earthers are very likely to be antivaxxers as well.

    So I would not underestimate the danger of such conspiracies.

  46. I wouldn't look at the people who fall for anti vax sentiment when placing blame at all. They are average people, not scientists, doing their best to analyze a situation to protect their children from harm. The blame lies squarely with the people spreading the lies and inaccurate information about vaccines. Lack of scientific knowledge/ability to discern it does not constitute a moral failing just as being poor does not constitute a moral failing. These people are victims and yet another example of how affordable/free higher education for all would benefit our society. It's not like they had nefarious intent, they're trying to protect their children.

  47. Several thoughts on this. First, that there has been for a time a culture even academically that leaned towards it is all relative and a matter of "opinion" rather than objective truth especially in the humanities. I feel that in general, the value of objective facts, even those we may not be able to establish but know are there, have been sacrificed in favor of our own opinions of the matter. Of a subjective truth. We have given up trying. Well, it spreads out into any opinion is as valid as the next, when that is certainly not the case.

    Second, this just shows how dangerous it is when people who have enough knowledge and understanding to know some things but not enough to be able to be critical of the misinformation they are getting, or to think that some research should be done on the subject before they take such an important choice for their child. Historical research, medical research, social and populations research, any of that would have told them that vaccines were very necessary and life-saving.

    Third, what did Russia think would happen long term? Sure short term it might be fun to create groups of anti-vaxers, but that does lead to the spread of the disease. Diseases spread beyond borders. While I'm sure that Russia has upped its vaccine program (at cost) to meet this threat, will it be able to vaccinate everyone? Or will it too end up hit with the disease it helped to create?

    Which brings me to my final thought, that governments need to get more proactive about this issue. They need to face the challenge locally with information campaigns and start to take the steps necessary in various ways of making parents responsible for these choices for the safety of the rest of us. If people really want a vaccine free life, they will have to give something up for that, rather than endangering us all.

  48. I live in Washington state, there was a case of measles outbreak because of anti-vaxers in parts of the state. Weโ€™re considering mandatory vaccination. Hope itโ€™d pass.

  49. Daddy state and your Master command you…………..OBEY ,Take your doze of Poison "vaccine" ,consume Fake News "CNN ,CNBC ,BBC ,etc" ,Pay Your Taxes ,have no kids because Global "hoax" warming special if you are white ,Islam it great ,love illegal imigrants ,own no propety ,and wen you are to old just fucking die……..and dont listen the damn Russian "because we allways blame the russians for all crap we do "

  50. Aren't live virus vaccines like the measles vaccine contraindicated in people with weak immune systems such as children because the virus survives in their body and mutates into more dangerous strains which then infect others and cause outbreaks (which are then blamed on anti-vaxxers)?

  51. This is the danger of internet … previously, those lunatics couldnt communicate and team up because of the lack of logistics ….

    now some sick idiot in Sidney can discuss in realtime with some other lunatic in Greenland …

  52. In my opinion, Wakefield is to blame and every measles death should be ascribed to him. He should at least somehow be held accountable even after 20 years.

  53. It might help if this debate differentiated between different kinds of vaccines. One shot vaccines like for measles are clearly a good idea, whereas flu vaccines, which are for last yearโ€™s virus, and often have mercury in them (a known source of free radicals), are much more problematic.
    Of course having leaders who take science seriously would be fantastic!

  54. I do not understand letting people decide not to vaccinate…..Iโ€™ve known children who have died from complications of measles…….

  55. People who get vaccinated should be payed to be vaccinated equal to the herd immunity benefits they provide to the people who didn't get vaccinated. And the people who don't get vaccinated should have to pay a tax to cover their compensation.

  56. These people really are a terribly selfish bunch. I can't believe we in the UK have lost our measles free status-these parents are endangering vulnerable people who can't get vaccinated for various reasons even if they want to as well as their own children. I'm not sure what should be done since education doesn't seem to be working but there needs to be something to nip this in the bud

  57. I wonder if flat earthers believe in climate change? The science of it depends on the earth being round but fighting it means that airplane companies would lose a lot of business

  58. I live in Clark County, Wa, one of places that had a measles outbreak. And it's not the first time! When my first child was born, there was an 800+ outbreak of whooping cough.
    What's next? Polio? Argh.

  59. Russia Russia Russia!!!

    Seriously?? You are blaming Russia for this? At what point is it fair to call you Xenophobic? Because you are

Related Post