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AmericaGen Study Group – Chapter 24 Church Records

quiet on the set here we go 5 4 3 2 1 hello everybody I'm deer Myrtle your friend in genealogy welcome to the America Jen study group we are working through Val green woods book let me pull that up and cousin Russ I'm so glad you're here today because we had that wonderful windows update and it's made life really thrilling hasn't it yep it is the one thing at something else so cousin Russ will share the link to our homework I'm going to use a word document so that I can zoom in on the excellent graphics that have been provided let's click and follow so we can get that Amazon link Val Greenwood wrote this book many years ago and we are up to the fourth edition okay apparently I get to have three tabs opening up love it but anyway that so all of our panelists have been tasked with looking at the chapter seeing what Greenwood has to say about it and then look to our own individual homework assignment to take those principles and see where they've played out in our own family history research and we have a guest panelist this time cousin Russ submitted homework so you will be seeing that a little bit later okay who is conducting this today tell me I have to be quiet and I'm the opinion I'm not even going to be opinionated and I'm putting on my mustache so I'll be quiet do you want to turn off so I'm – I'm introducing this yes for an off your little view things oh yeah you don't want that certainly I will I will follow your directions thank you so this this chapter was about church records and for me except for my southern family on my mother's side church records have been very very useful I had lots of church-going ancestors so you'll see some examples and my homework mm-hmm but we have some great examples of everybody so sherry why don't you start us off all righty well when I first saw that this is what this was about it oh I've got a great record to share so you know sometimes we we don't know where our ancestors went to church but a good clue could be sometimes if you discover that they are buried in a church cemetery that doesn't mean never went to that church they may have been buried there because that's where their family went but it's a good clue to start looking so um I had gone to visit a cemetery and discovered some family members and thought well I'm gonna start looking for any church records it was a Midway Presbyterian Church in Clarendon County South Carolina so I contacted the local historical and genealogy societies to see if they hunted me being the church had said we think there are some records but we're not sure where they are and so I started looking locally to see because most times with church records that's where you're going to find them as locally you know some of the the bigger churches I know that the Catholic Church records are starting to be digitized and put on places like find my past but a lot of these smaller denominations the smaller churches you're gonna find if they kept any records and if they're still available you're gonna find him on the local level so I did I I called one of the actual genealogical societies and they said we happen to have a book that was put together based on the church records the original records the original records were micro films and they are in the Clarendon County Courthouse they're archives the originals are there but some ladies went together and they transcribed these records and put them in book form so I was able to go through and find not just the records of the the person that I was looking for but other members farther up in the generations of family who attended this church they're not buried in the cemetery but they attended this church for some period of time and we have to remember that our ancestors a lot of times would church hop depending on if the preacher was or you know where they were living at the time what churches were around them how far they had to travel and so what's really interesting about some of these church records as you can not only find birth and death dates but sometimes you can find interesting information them and then like when they join the church where they came from before they got there if they left sometimes where they were going there's also fun things you can find in these church records about disciplinary actions and luckily none of these ancestors in this particular book had any disciplinary action but I have others that were kicked out for one reason or another different churches one was accused of stealing another person's hog I mean one thing after another or they left a church to form their own church so there's not only can you find names dates and places but you can find interesting information about their lives and and their characters and in in some of these records so due to this book that I was able to find I'm I found out once like I said when some of them came and joined the church who they brought with them there are information about marriages information about burials deaths some of the members of my family were leading members of this church and helped in different ways so check if you're looking for church records on your family the first thing that I would do is if you don't know where they're buried look and see what churches are in the area just look at a map what would have been available at that time period because just because you know your ancestor was a Baptist doesn't mean they didn't go to the Methodist Church because that would have been the only one around and they wanted to go to church so you'll find a lot of church hopping as especially in the south as as new churches were built they would move and go to a different one but check locally call those historical societies call the Jena logical societies in the area see what they know they might know what is available it's very important to use those local people who know where the records are and sometimes they'll even give you I've had some give me phone numbers of people that they'd say you know this church isn't even in a working church anymore but this particular person took all the records and you can call them and see if they know where they are so use the local people when you're looking especially in the south for church records no comment huh there's a feature in Google Maps which some people do not know and go on Google Maps there's a sometimes a drop-down menu that will allow you to display churches and cemeteries in schools so don't that's a very helpful feature when dealing with you you said look for churches look for churches and and and pull down menu you will can find them exactly exactly and just start mapping it out and just start you know look for where they lived and just kind of start going out you know it looks like they didn't go to this one what else could have been there look for histories of the county or that community to see what churches would have been available because they might not even be there anymore they could have burned down they could have you know just be an old run-down building that nobody uses anymore but that would have may have been the church that they went to and and and also I mentioned to newspapers sometimes when you're searching in the newspaper you can find information about churches that were in the area sometimes you can discover that they had a social and it'll it'll name the people who went to that social and your ancestor may have gone so there's there's a lot of different ways that you can find church records and not a lot of them I'm discovering at least for me are online I know that the South Carolina archives are digitisation proj there they are trying to start getting some of these church records and get them online but there's very very few very few and also look in your historical and genealogical societies a lot of general article societies collect and have books a Sumter County genealogical society actually has a research room but a lot of people don't know about they think oh they're just a genealogical society I can go to meetings you know once a month there and learn something but they actually have a research firm that is full of local book so check and see what they may have because there are people that have transcribed those records and put them into book form but you're not going to find them online you're gonna have to ask and see where they are and and how you can get ahold of them excellent excellent did she notice that I wasn't seeing anything but I did add a word there two words where I found information exactly directories exactly okay I'll mute myself okay that's a great that's great that's why we need you as we're doing this we can't think of everything that's why we work together we've used all these things but when you start to put the homework is hard to remember everything so yeah I actually sherry once I found a record of my ancestor selling land to a church yes I found that too yeah oh that was a helpful hint as to what church they had to sell or give yeah well they he sold it for a dollar so yeah so it was pretty close to giving all right next is Melinda now now this this is kind of dear to my heart because yes I was a parish secretary for and that's how I put myself through college but I'm like I wanted to share not the birth marriage and death records but that there are tons of other records that you might find or your family might have collected all my examples are things that I've scanned for my family saving things in to me the number one because I did this every Friday was the church bulletin and most churches you know they don't have to be great big to to do a church bulletin and they would put things that were going on in the community or the one that I've got on the left right there that's that's went my grandmother actually noted that that was when my cousin was baptized and then we have the other one is when a cousin became an ordained minister and had his first Holy Mass but yeah I mean you can find all different information because even in the flower remembrances you can go okay well how do these people relate to me yes half of them may be cousins and things so there's there's always things that you can find out via a bulletin and most churches will keep at least a copy of the bulletin and everything whereas the parish registers will get some I know for the Episcopal Church after only the time they'll get moved to the Dyson level and so they they get collected at a different spot than a local church but the the copies of the bulletins are usually held in the local church so that they can see what they've done and what hasn't been done and and everything so it's fun to to look for and prayer cards for Roman Catholic Church members these some of these were done by funeral homes but others are done you know by the churches themselves but I like the fact that hey there was a picture of this great uncle on his prayer car so I know what he looked like I've no other pictures of this gentleman so it's nice to have and you know has all his information that somebody gave but I can go use this as second dairy evidence to figure out hey this is is who he was and what he did the one below it is for my great aunt who lived two past 100 and so it's just you know nice little remembrances that they give to people at funerals and everything and then the other thing that you might not know about is when someone dies people with the Catholic faith can ask to have a mass said for the person so this is actually stating that a mass was said for my husband Doug in Ireland and that it was done by my sister-in-law's family to honor Doug when he passed away so just another nice remembrance but you know somebody cool that mass will be recorded in Ireland so there's going to be a record in Ireland of a mass Ford culpa being held at this time so people will have in the future what's the Saarland connection yeah yeah so when you notice I noted that my grandmother kept a lot of these cards and some family so right you have to be careful because she attended lots of masses general masses or friends or just because she liked going to church right definitely and so charitable organizations a lot of churches have branched charitable organizations and the one that you know comes to my mind most prevalent are the hospitals because I spent you know time in the Catholic hospitals but my grandmother also worked she was a nurse and she was trained by the Catholic Church and nursing but they went out and did work at the Catholic hospitals and the nurses will come in they'd offer day care I know that's why she kept this bulletin is because my father's in that bottom picture in room 12 I couldn't pick out which one he is I have a feeling he's one of the little bitty ones because it was 1939 when he would when this was done but just something that she had saved that you know okay well the Catholic Church may have a record of this may not have a record of this but since they were using this for advertisement to get money you know they may still have that everything but it also gives a view of what it was like in a hospital meeting room right where your father was mm-hmm because they've got a radiator on the back wall that asbestos tile flooring which actually set at an angle very artfully yeah got it cool but you know just something else that you can look for and my grandmother is on the back left corner right there and the one in the center back is her sister right there whose prayer card we saw up earlier but they would dispatch nurses throughout the country and one of the the places that my grandmother actually went to was she went to the Panama Canal Zone and worked as a nurse down there for a while and so and it was all done throughout through Catholic Charities and and everything but she she and her sister both were nurses throughout their entire lives so it was you know my father was very disappointed when I didn't become a note a nurse but you know basically when when you find this information you need to figure out you know why was this document created well the prayer cards were created because somebody died the building fund was created because they were you know wanting money the next document that's down this is the a Salvation Army's member Commission and so when we were doing I was doing the Slig intermediate we did a color tree of so an ancestors chart that showed what religions you did in color the different religions of your ancestors and I think it's actually a neat way to look at it so my second great-grandfather was a Salvation Asst and so during World War one the Salvation Army members went out and actually gave food drove ambulances and actually and that's where the term doughnut dolly came and to play was from the women in the same Salvation Army giving donor to the soldiers out on the frontlines and so that was kind of interesting to read and find out about but you know this is showing that John Elliott Hall was a member of this service league during World War one because it says we it's now a country that is engaged in the war and so that he has the right to help and assist in that endeavor and so interesting history and everything so that's it Melinda I wanted to say just a quick thing about those church bulletins they're not just for past history I have got some because I guess my kids decide you know they can't especially when they were little or they had to tell me something in the middle of church and they couldn't wait and so they need notes on those church bulletins and a lot of them I've saved and they're hysterical to go back and look at because it kind of reminds me of things that were going on the one I wish that I had saved was my daughter had come back from college wasn't sure what she was going to do with her life and we're sitting in the middle of church and you know we're telling well maybe you'll meet somebody here and get married ha ha ha she says this young man gets up he just got off his mission to give a talk and I wrote on the bulletin maybe this is your future husband the road to her and that is who she married that's great you just never know I have a comment as well Melinda said this Hugh is the parish secretary I was the parish administrator in the Episcopal Church so when you're looking for records from that church and you're in contact with them ask for the bulletin I we kept copies of the we kept the original of all the bulletins and threw the extra subway but we had that copy and but and don't don't expect an immediate turn around on that be patient because my job is not to pull records for you was never that job but I did it because I was interested and I went out of my way to do that the other you mentioned I saw that hospital fundraiser remember what churches do for fundraising how about cookbooks yes how about church histories if I come to the church especially in the Episcopal Church because that's what I am if I go to a church the first thing I want to ask whoever I run into do you have a history of this church murdered and I visited a church down in Baltimore County where both of our ancestors went to and I have a an inch book volume of the church history where both of our families were mentioned as members of the vestry so ask for cookbooks because the churches raised money how did they raise money cookbooks besides good recipes but there's also some tidbits and stories in there our genealogy societies skating cookbooks right now and they do come from churches and everything but yeah I was a vest remember to Russ just took it took it on and on so yeah that's it that's great yeah I found one of my husband's ancestors was a minister and he moved from church to church and each of those churches had little histories and that's where I found all these different photographs of him over over his lifetime from these little church books is great these little church histories so what's next I don't remember who's coming Marty mine's a little bit different most of my ancestors were religious and went to church but the church as they attended the either didn't systematically keep vital records or if they mentioned them in their church minutes I don't have access to those minutes so I haven't really explored church records a whole lot if your ancestors were ministers you may find some biographies on them in different places I have found that but again they're not actual church records so about the only thing I have from a church record is that one of my ancestors was a charter member of a particular church in Clay County Florida and I'm trying to establish that this one family lived in Clay County before it was formed so that I can get them qualified for the Florida Pioneer descendent certificate Duval County is now present-day Jacksonville but back in the 1850s it was a lot bigger and encompassed several other counties so even though he's on the 1850 census for Duval County I didn't know where in Duval County or I didn't have documentation to show where in Duval County he lived to support the family legacy that they were in the middle burg area so of course the first place you go to look is deeds but and I did find him on a deed index for Duval County but all of those records were destroyed in a large fire in downtown Jacksonville in 1906 so I can't use land records to establish residency so James Baldwin was on the petition to form clay county but of course his wife would not have legal standing to sign that document so she's not on there the only record I have that shows her as a resident of Clay County is this being a charter member of Beulah Baptist Church and russ has posted a link to a Google map of where that church is located and if Merck can pull that up you'll see that even today it's in the middle of nowhere to the east of that is a big military Florida National Guard base right now Camp Blanding and to the east of that there's nothing but so the fact that she was a charter member of this church is pretty indicative of the fact that they lived in that neighborhood because it's in the middle of Clay County they would not have gone from stark or Keystone Heights or any or penny farm so what has just been too far to travel in 1850 to attend worship services even now it's a pretty far trek in a car so imagine trying to do that through swamps and woods you can't you can't make progress at all you know you know I had to drive them route on sugar sand yesterday and I just had to floor my car and hope I didn't get stuck so anyways this is the only document I have linking LV baldwin to being in Clay County Florida before it was formed which will qualify her for the Pioneer decent certificate to be to be named as one of the Florida pioneers so at the county level so it's a different way of using Church records but that's pretty much all I have that's a great example Marceline Wow well good luck on that I hope they accept it I have a lot of work to do to get all the documentation together and organized so I'm my goal is to have that done by Thanksgiving or so so that it's had time to be reviewed and accepted by our family reunion next March okay thank you so Kari oh we've kind of talked around other records besides a birthday at marriage though we usually would see in church registers and some things that we haven't quite list is some of these Church books will have a parish list of current members for that point in time confirmations of some of the younger church members communion lists if you're looking at records outside the US like for Norway dubbing vaccination lists transfers in and out admissions and removals church attendance perhaps a list of what some of the Psalms that were perhaps read during different services Church financial records and church service history so we can find some of those records within the family search so I've given you some links where they are with for ancestry and FamilySearch my favorite always to start with a wiki to learn what might be available and there's an excellent table how about some prominent churches based on their religion and if you slide down halfway down the wiki article they'll be the table a little further keep going this would be in the US this is a pretty nice link yeah it said of links to yeah for different religions and then for the US had those kind of crossed over once they hit the US again at the table further down gosh the wiki out so much information I know it just my go-to place to start okay I'm still there okay you're right so to paste on what your country of origin is for one of your ancestors what the permanent Church might be and what it might have been known as within the US so the Church of Scotland became Presbyterian so that's kind of fun so pick your country find your church and again if your people are here in churches then it's easier but sometimes if you have no place to start I thought that table was a good find and then if depending on your country of origin then you may want to then drill down even further using the wiki so I have a lot of Norwegian family so then I went then to the parish listings for that and you'll never know where you'll find the church records we've seen some excellent examples today how just search cards cemeteries something I'll find a grave could lead you to a certain church you'll never know and sometimes you really need to look at the full read of the full book because you'll never know what's in it as opposed to just limiting yourself to just the birth day in marriage so my examples are again kind of like sherry based on cemetery that someone was buried at the Red Oak Grove Lutheran Church so I found the record and ancestry and Carrie told us not her was listed there and her parents so then that kind of got me then the next step back to find some other records so because that came up in a hint I was able to learn that there is actually a group of records and I've used this multiple times both for Washington State and Minnesota so it is a full kind of US representation depending on the churches if you have a Lutheran so then by drilling down you can actually then go to your state and county so it's a pretty wide rate list of records so then I found using those names we just saw of her parents I was able to then drill down on Carrie I'm going back in there no Weejun to the digital archives that Norway has provided based on their parish books so I found an in book number five and it was just again I'm a amazing gold mine and it's as good as the penmanship is of the church register at the time which was usually the Paris the parish priest and lots of my Norwegian family I don't have a parish so sometimes it's working with current records and working slowly the way back and a neighbor or a fan club member may lead me to where I'm going so I was able to find her baptism then that listed her parents so I found two generations I'm using some of these records and then what to do with then the information that you get lots of times I was faced with now back to us records again at the red oak Church I had lots of different baptisms again these people sent to travel in groups so they were all from the homeland and it was sponsors that were listed with the baptismal christenings so then I kind of listed how different children had repeat repetitive sponsors and they probably had another type of relationship we said just being a sponsor so there you go I cannot overemphasize the importance of the fanclub here yeah and I don't know if everybody just went on vacation these these two times these children or isn't but that's the only or me when you're dealing with patronymics or even just common names like Smith or Jones I'm working on Wagner for my brother-in-law that it was the sponsors that helped me figure out which Wagner family we were talking about because they all had to marry a wife named Elizabeth just doesn't help right you know and now I'm looking at this now for the third time and on the first century I really need to highlight that Margaret toads daughter is a relationship but she's not repeated again but she's definitely related okay I will use a different highlight there you go okay perfect there you go so you'll never know what you're gonna find with your church records but there are always a little gold mined yep okay look at all of her citations she gets the gold star for her site because I keep attending these study groups and learning more and being more confident ah I love it beautiful table oh I just followed all those NGS examples I'm really good at look and see and do look and see and do well that's great fantastic well next is up as me so I love church records and I've been using them for a long time my father's side of the family were Roman Catholic so there are lots of church records available for for his families but I also have records for some of hid my husband's Swedish families as well Swedish and German families but church records are really good sometimes the record the church won't give you any records and so that's kind of disappointing but sometimes that's the only place and you might but I've been successful in writing to churches and and asking for one particular item and you'll see one of my examples where they photocopied the whole page and then cut a strip of that one person's records I couldn't see what anything else on the page but at least I got it so I was happy and for that the first examples of baptism and these people I think were originally Lutheran in Germany but they were attending this Evangelic Church which is now a united whatever the UCC stands for and obviously I found this on microfilm so it was a microphone to record and you can see this handwriting is difficult these German church these priests in these German churches in America wrote the same way they wrote in Germany using current handwriting styles so that that was a little more challenging but this record you know gives the the name of the the child and the parents names so that was very wonderful record there I can't read the handwriting what have you underlined here that's her name Julia okay I'm glad that you're familiar with that parish priests and right yeah it's you know it takes a little bit of time to work through this and this isn't the first record I've found and so you are able to pull out words here and there and if you have German church records FamilySearch has great writing letter examples to help you plus vocabulary for the the words that are being used in these records because of course it's in German this is not in English this is in German so that would be helpful too okay at least if I can just add if you ever find anyone that's transcribed one example with similar wording chances are then you can make out your own entry based on what's done before you so I do a lot of googling the name of the church record of the book or the style of record and just see if anyone's posted anything I found a gold mine and a lady that had transcribed all the headers for about 60 years of Norwegian church books and it was said that they were done by your groups and it was kind of like he was a gold mine so then I already had the headers transcribe so it was perfect perfect and I the same thing happened to me when I was looking at French Canadian French French Canadian records and someone had written a blog post on how to read these and oh what a goldmine because she gave you you know that the words pretty much that what were written in order and I was able to pick them out Lisa the handwriting was easier to read and French and what have you found there also you found some examples I I will reiterate transcribing the header of the book that you're looking at is so important because once you figure out oh that's the the baptismal name then you've got it forever and you can just keep applying it and and it gets easier to read the writing but you've done that top margin instead of just going to her because I have to do check records and that's what I did with my check record should just go word-for-word and look at it and then you're able to figure out this is what this is right excellent so let's go into my second example I'm just just a second I just wanted to show you that there are some other resources for deciphering old handwriting including this by James Tanner there's also a book by skip Perry so I'll kind of work on those and I've read your homework but I should have posted these earlier I'm Roger miner also written a book about reading German handwriting it's excellent yeah lay is so important also yeah Lattin yeah especially the Catholic records cuts down til being the use Latin words okay go for it go for it okay well let's go down because I don't remember what's next oh alright ah this was my best find ever ever so my great-grandparents were married in a Catholic Church in Joliet which was a German Church and this priest kept great records and the secretary at the time photocopy both it was a big ledger book with two pages right and left side and she photocopied the whole book page and sent them to me taped them together and I was able to find the hometown of my great-grandfather and the hometown of his wife and the parents it was just a wonderful wonderful find and so if you're having Thorne borned people and your families looking at church records churches often will write down the hometown of of your ancestor where they came from in the church record so that's a it's like the one of the number one sources for looking for foreign-born ancestors hometown because even if they were French or Swedish or you know Polish whatever you can't look for records in the foreign country until you know exactly where they're from because the records there are kept locally so this was a big big fine I had a really hard time reading this I had to you know do a lot of research trying to figure out the names of these towns were often these towns can been absorbed with bigger town and so you have to find older maps to look for these old for these towns but it was a wonderful wonderful find then the next one or were register of families so these these Protestant churches tended to keep these records of their pee coming in and going out and so they would register them by and there they'll have a registration number on the left column of the order that people came in and out of the church and these particular ones these were these were also German and they wrote down their births and where they were born and and sometimes I write down their marriage state or their baptism date maybe their confirmation date if that was important to that church and then when when they left they usually said where they were going so that was great so then you go to the next town and figure out where they were going so fantastic so this was a Swedish church in Hilmar California that kept track of these records and I had visited originally the church in person but these are now online yay so fantastic and then my last example sometimes in the church you asked for a copy of a record and the secretary or priest will not actually photocopy the record they will send you an abstract of the record and so I wanted to show you the certificate of baptism that I had below my somehow my grandmother obtained an in 1951 and she was baptized in 1892 and I found it or I guess it was 1853 in 1953 there and I don't know why she asked for it there must have been some reason she needed it but later in the last year or so I contacted the church to look for her the baptism of her sister and why I was talking with the lady I said well could you also send the copy of the baptism of my grandmother and so there it is I cut it in half it was a long strip literally it was a long strip of she only showed me that one portion of the page but you can see that hurt she was born it should it is written on the Baptist when she was born the 14th of October 1892 but when you look at the certificate the priest filled out in 1953 he wrote down the 15th of October and that was actually the date we celebrated my grandmother's birthday was the 15th so it was kind of interesting that the two documents are different but it shows he created this certificate from that document and didn't copy it down right so be very very careful about abstracts and yet it looks like an original record doesn't it doesn't he have written until you get to this part and realize I realize that it happened 50 years later yeah 60 years later yeah yeah so it so be very very careful about that okay just one more thing to insert before we go to cousin dresses homework this took me a while to find this and cousin Russ will share the link with you these tutorials not only show you examples of handwriting in these various languages but they actually test you on it if you try to transcribe it so it's kind of fun I think that was a good use of web resources for learning Oh fantastic yeah especially since it's such a variety and go for it anyway oh right so cousin Russ it's great to hear from you well this is this was totally by accident I gave a presentation at Ohio Geological Society a couple of weeks ago and I was putting my presentation together and I wanted to start um to demonstrate how the document stuff and this study group time was not in my brain at the time when I did this so I started out by wanting to demonstrate how to do create a citation for personal knowledge and the personal knowledge was the baptism of my father my brother and I so I was creating the site citation for that which I did and then I there's a feature and Family Tree Maker called standardized rating for this based on evidence explained and I created showed that's what I wanted to demonstrate that I was there but I made a justification that I was present at the event which I was but I was six years old that I needed more documentation to prove that which is true and I have the church bulletin from when my dad my brother and I were bath eyes but when I got that work done I looked at hints because could I find a record that helped me with my dad's time in various churches and the first record I came up with was a Quaker record and the Quaker record is online at ancestry I think Kerry had a link to the Quaker records in in her homework and the first record was in the third column of that record you know I know you can't read it but it is the transfer from my a Quaker meeting in New Jersey to a Quaker meeting in Pennsylvania and the third column was Gaines family members that were gained now you'll notice that this is on blue line paper with three columns and up at the top it had a date which was six thirty nine twenty seven but I didn't because was a Quaker record in the way that the date was written I wasn't sure whether that was a Quaker date or not I know that church has Quaker dates in their records but the what our Quaker dates explain that it's not the dates that we know it's year say it's month date year but the month numbering is different than what we have used that we use today mm-hmm so but the that record was a transfer and I didn't know that my dad I knew my grandfather was a member of the Quaker meeting in Chester monthly meeting in New Jersey I knew that I've been to the church the Quaker meeting he went to the school that's on the same property but what I didn't realize initially was that my dad and his siblings so all the kids are listed there in in that column but this was the transfer of the my grandfather and his children into the Quaker meeting in Pennsylvania and that's what the rotated text on the right hand side says I think I said it's certified the Quaker meeting is there was certified in that they were being transferred so I get my them my grandfather had been married in 1915 in that Quaker meeting the time the the sequence of events that I will explain now are okay but they're not the dates that they happened so I I had figured it was they were married in 1915 and the Quaker meeting records didn't get moved to 1927 now the next hint that I got is a type version of a very similar record and it was done at the same time but this is typed and up at the upper left hand corner I think I have the citation in the presentation I have the citation where it had the date type so I didn't have to worry about whether that was a Quaker date in the first record or not because this one was typed but the same text is there the same transfer and what's interesting about this specific record that there's two surnames in the people who visited the Quaker family that are surnames which I know at the time so that's part of my fan club and I have to tell you this happened in this sequence the next record I found was the transfer of my dad into the Quaker or into the Episcopal Church now my my mother and her family were members of that church my dad was baptized in 1949 this record was nine dated 1950 so it took him a while to get in but this is the received my dad was received in 1950 into the Episcopal Church in Pennsylvania and remember it was a year after he was baptized now like was mentioned before a double sided a two-page wide document that was shown earlier this is what's in the right hand side of that page on the line for my dad which says transferred to Grace Church Haddonfield 1958 now we had moved from Pennsylvania to New Jersey in 1957 the sequence of events and these records are true the dates of the event are different from what we really experienced so the date the dates are not they're not the same dates which I didn't do not expect but they're the sequences is correct now what's really interesting I do not have citations on these records which I believe I posted in in the blog because I haven't worked with those records they're hints that I'm working with and I have not done the citations now what's this comes full circle because we're the Quaker I took my dad and a couple of our cousins to that Quaker meeting where my grandfather started and the school where they started I have a photograph of my grandfather's class in 1907 and from where that building is to where my dad died was five miles away so be loose with the dates yep so spelling doesn't count and dates don't count well well this I didn't care about the date because I know because Melinda can vouch for this the dates of when they were recorded and when they happened may be different but the sequence was the same I just I have one other experience that and something that I would like to share is we talked about where records are in the churches but what if that church closes what you need to understand is that many of the major churches will have a place where they send records either I think Melinda mentioned earlier every so much time books will be sent to a repository Drew University for an example has a repository for methods some Methodist books a the Roman Catholic Church in North Jersey would go to Rutgers University they also have local repositories with India and within diocesan offices I worked in the Episcopal Diocese of Newark for a couple years and we had a vault a real bank vault that had historical records that when a church closed that's where the books went so each church does it differently but they just suggest that when you're looking for a specific church where did where are their where did their records go what is the repository for those records and it may be a seminary and maybe a seminary within a university like jrue the nice thing that when I worked in the diocese an office I wanted seriously wanted the diacid the diocese to work with ancestry to get those records digitized and three years later I was doing some work for my daughter and found records that were sitting in that vault that were online at ancestry so and the records by the way I look at my hints from my dad all the time but I never saw those since so you never know when those records are going to come online because they have not had not been online so I was trying to do this presentation got it I'll add something to that one of the things that if you think you have somebody that lived in the area and may have attended a church and you can't find them they may have been at that church because one of my jobs was one of the churches I attended in Delaware found a box of old records that the priest had just put everything in a in a box and they had just recently found this box in 1983 and so I had to sit there and put all that information into registers and yes there were things back to the 1700s and so just going how did this get missed but things get missed because we're human so don't I went to a church in Butte Montana and a long long time ago Butte had Oh probably a dozen Catholic churches well those Irish that were there and there was only one left and that one parrot that one parish church had all of the church books from those other little churches that used to be there so when churches fold they often send the records to the church that they're sending all the Brewster's to to go with them so that's have also a possibility that the church I have found most often in Catholic that the actual parish churches are the ones that have the records that they haven't been sent off to lease out here haven't been sent off to an archive yet day of choices many options many options in other words love everywhere well you know when you ask the church itself where are your records and they'll tell you where they got sent so that would be helpful for that Bravo okay well thank you very much panelists I agree with Claudia this is pretty cool she's attending for the first time and she says she loves this study group and she inquired about our handouts and cousin Russ I haven't done this for a long time but we put all of our handouts for dear Myrtle webinars in the cloud over on Google Drive and cousin Russ has given you all a link to this combined homework that's been uploaded and yes you may print it Google it's a Google document you're permitted to view it and I can see that there's quite a few of you who are viewing it I was looking at it natively on in Microsoft Word so I could make some of the graphics bigger but you may download your own copy or make a copy and put in your own Google Drive folder so that you'll have it and there's actually quite a few I mean we've done 24 chapters now so there's 24 sets of handouts like this one just happens this time it was on church records once it's your own copy in and I recommend doing that rather than downloading it because I'd like you to have it in the cloud and start thinking of keeping things in the cloud whenever possible there are there are redundancies built into Google Drive where Google has more than one copy so if this hard drive in the cloud that has our study group handouts in it if it were to die it can be they can take the hard drive out of that array and put a new hard drive in and it's immediately populated from their backup and you its Google Drive has a number of neat options cousin Russ we are doing a discussion coming up on Google Drive itself aren't we talk about that for a second while I pull it up yeah we're we're going to be doing a webinar on legacy family tree webinars on Google all things cool because there's a lot of tools that family researchers genealogists will use and it's next week I think yep it is all right let me give this link to so that you can register for that it's especially important since to people we know of of late have had their hard drives die or they've started receiving the blue screen of death on their computers this is so we're going to talk about all of the tools that are available through Google Drive word processing spreadsheet slides okay of interesting things there we will be doing that next week now tonight we're going to have I'm choking up here cousin Russ tonight we're going to do Wacky Wednesday and we're going to do it on how do you or what do you do with your current research notes this is a question that I posed in the organized genealogy I guess that's not quite the organized genealogist Facebook group we're not all organized perfectly but it was interesting to hear the variety of systems that people have employed for pulling together information that they're gathering and they're still in the analysis stage before they decide it really belongs in their genealogy program as part of their official family tree which Wagner are we talking about anyway okay anything else before we go cousin Russ I think we got it by George I think we've got it and I think you will agree with me that these folks all deserve a gold star on their charts excellent work today I love love love it nothing left to say but I'm dear Myrtle your friend in genealogy happy family tree climene everybody that's a wrap

Author Since: Mar 11, 2019

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